Interview with Michel Garin
Translated by Jonathan Mackris
First published in L’Express (27 July 1970); republished in Des années Mao aux années 80 (Paris: Flammarion, 1991), 74-76
Ici et ailleurs (Jean-Luc Godard and Anne-Marie Miéville, 1976)
The following is an interview with Jean-Luc Godard about his then-upcoming project on the Palestinian revolution, produced by Fatah. The project would undergo several changes, and the footage would eventually be repurposed in collaboration with Anne-Marie Miéville as ICI ET AILLEURS (1976). This interview sheds some light on Godard's initial intentions for the project. A substantial historical account of this project was written by Rula Shawan for Senses of Cinema in 2022. - JM
L’Express: How did you get the idea to film in Amman?
Godard: The film was commissioned by the Central Committee for the Palestinian Revolution. It’s an Arab film, financed by Arabs. The idea to make it came to me after contacting some Palestinians and Frenchmen.
How did you conceive of the film?
As a Frenchman, as a film on the Arabs that was never made during the Algerian war. A film on the Arab world, which was for a long time colonized by the French and which still is, since in France a large part of the workforce is still made up of Arabs and Africans. Coming here to film isn’t to give lessons, but to receive them from people who are ahead of us. I’m trying to use my technical knowledge to express the ideas of the Palestinian revolution.
What will the film’s title be?
The Methods of Thought and Struggle in the Palestinian Revolution. [1] It will be a political film, or more accurately a political report given in Arabic and dubbed according to broadcast requirements.
Is it a political film?
We’re not seeking sensational images. All of the sensational images were filmed by the American television channels, CBS and ORTF. We’re trying to perform a political analysis of the Palestinian revolution. We were never trained how to present political images. We’re just starting to figure it out. This film has two aims: (1) to help the people who, in one way or another, fight against imperialism in their country; (2) to present a new genre of film. A kind of political brochure.
Could you explain what you mean by the term “political brochure”?
Our aim is not to show images, but the relationships between images. At this moment, the film becomes political because these relationships are in line with the political line of the unified command of the Palestinian revolution. In order to make it, it needs time. The Palestinians are in a state of protracted people’s war. There's no reason why the film shouldn't take its time as well.
What difficulties have you encountered?
The difficulty came from the fact that it isn’t a film made out of political sympathy, but as a result of political discussion. Members of the Palestinian resistance participated in the making. It’s one of the aspects of their mission. The film was discussed regularly.
Will we see the Palestinian leaders?
We’ll see some of them.
Will you talk about the internal difficulties that have emerged between the different movements?
We will speak about them, but we won’t present them as rivals like the imperialist press does.
Has the recent crisis between Jordanians and Palestinians had repercussions on the preparation for your film? [2]
It helped to clarify things. We’re studying the methods of thought and struggle in the Palestinian revolution. The originality of this revolution inspires fear in the existing regimes in the Middle East and, in turn, their American and Russian protectors.
Some have reproached you for working solely with Fatah, the most powerful organization.
During the last plot, the bourgeois press said plenty about the other organizations. Not enough has been said about Fatah.
From a cinematic point of view, what’s interesting about this project?
The cinema is one of the domains where imperialism is the most powerful. Until now, it has been neglected as a means of political expression. We believe we have to use it if we have the possibility.
Translator’s Notes
[1] Later, the film’s title would be Jusqu’à la victoire (“Until Victory”). Uncompleted, the footage was later repurposed in collaboration with Anne-Marie Miéville into Ici et ailleurs (1976).
[2] The interviewer is referring to the conflicts between the Kingdom of Jordan and the PLO following the Six-Day War. Two months after this interview was published, these skirmishes would culminate in Black September, in which the Jordanian Armed Forces under the leadership of King Hussein killed several thousand Palestinians living in Jordan.
